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07 July 2008 @ 10:13 pm
Timo back in the national squad? What do you think?  
I just thought that maybe we could discuss (using some sources, if you find them, I'm desperate ^^) if you believe that Timo will return to the national squad after the EURO.
I honestly don't know. I'm posting this today because I read an interview before in the "kicker". Löw mentions there Adler and Neuer but doesn't say anything about Timo. I don't know what to think about this, but it seemed a little bit that it could be, if there is this often mentioned "Generation change" in the German goal, Timo will be on the losing side.
This is the voting from the kicker-readers about the question, which goalie should be the new Nr. 1 of the national squad:

René Adler 57,76%
Robert Enke 15,09%
Manuel Neuer 8,83%
Timo Hildebrand 8,51%
other 5,13%
Jens Lehmann 4,68%

WOah, I don't know why. Timo seems to be forgotten a little bit. Whatever. (It calmed me a little that, when I asked "Who do you think will be the next goalie?", my father answered instantly "Hildebrand, of course" ^^)

Well. Your opinion?

because I wanted to hint on articles in December to underline why this decision makes me still angry with Löw:
"Die Situation könnte sicher besser sein. Dennoch steht für mich fest, dass wir an beiden Torhütern festhalten."

Another comment from Löw during Mallorca-Camp or something: "Timo hat das Recht, eine tiefergehende Begründung zu bekommen und zu hören, wie wir weiter planen Richtung WM 2010."
(Timo has the right to get a deeper explanation and to hear what our plans are concerning the World Cup 2010)

Yeah, well, I'm still waiting ^^
Sammy-chan: snugliessammychan on July 7th, 2008 09:52 pm (UTC)
Your father is some kind of optimistic, I like him! ^.^

Just to mention it, in the magazin "sportbild" there was a note that the coach-team send Timo a letter, where they explain, that they don´t plan with him anymore for the national team. But I really can´t believe that! Löw did some wrong decisions in my opinion, but only a fucking letter? That´s gross. I can´t believe that he did that.

It´s hard now for Timo, the situation isn´t the best.
It seems to me, that Lehmann doesn´t really want to give up, but I don´t really think, he will be the goalkeeper for the german team until 2010. But it´s clear that the coaches want to form Adler as next goalie and his abilities are sure great for his age, but he is missing the experiences during world and euro cup. That was Timos advantage, but now, after he wasn´t in the team this year, I don´t really know... I can´t believe that he gets back in the team and will be the next Number one in such a short time. So the advantage isn´t longer one and he would be in directly competition with Adler. :/ I don´t want to tell, but I think than Adler will be the better goalkeeper.

That Löw doesn´t mention Timo anywhere isn´t a real sign for me, that he doesn´t plan with him anymore. It seems that he likes surprises, Adler was some kind of surprise, although he is surely good enough for the national team, Löw never mentiones him before. Then there was Marin, nobody count on him first, but Löw praise him up to the sky, only to send him back home. -.-
When his next surprise is to gets Timo back, I´m more than agreeable with that, but I haven´t so much hope about it.

Enke isn´t a really possibilty in my opinion, he only is a keeper in a middle-rated club. No chances for international experiences or geting any cup.

I hope the best for Timo, I´m sad about how they deal with him and he really deserves a second chance, but I´m not sure, this will really happen.
gefilterte Primärbegegnung auf der Metaebene: Smile like you mean itphoenixmaedchen on July 7th, 2008 10:48 pm (UTC)
They wrote - WHAT? *runs.around.madly*
Honestly, I don't believe this. I think one of the staff might have the guts to talk with Timo about everything, and Jogi said before the EURO that he'll talk with Timo after this. And talking and writing a letter are kind of different things...
Well, at least I hope it is untrue, this would be bad.

Concerning Adler, I believe it's a good sign that Lehmann, for example, wasn't the #1 until World Cup 2006 when he was - what - 36? I think a goalie needs experience also in foreign countries. Timo did a good job in Valencia, of course he made mistakes and he does a little unstable, but, well. Mh.

You're right saying that Löw DOES seem to like surprises, and I hope we'll get one again (Timo coming back and being Number 1, of course ^^), even if I'm not sure. There are lots of discussions on some German football boards why he got thrown out, going from "Personal reasons" to "too much of a competition for Lehmann", and now I really want to know the real reasons and have a look into the future.

And yes, I already noticed your "love" for Enke ^^
I think that Neuer might really get a chance now, but I'm not sure.
Sammy-chansammychan on July 8th, 2008 12:10 am (UTC)
Yeah, it remembers me to writing a SMS, when you broke with your girl- or boyfriend, it´s just cowardly.
But it´s still the Bild and noone else in the media mentioned this, so I put it under canard. It just can´t be...

Yeah, Adler is just kind of young, but we have a real problem in 2010. I can´t really follow, how Löw was thinking, when he kicked Timo out the team. Lehmann´s to old and Adler´s to young, and Enke? nooo! And this thing to gets Timo back and directly the Number one seems still highly unlikely to me.
It depends on the reasons, which we don´t know, it´s frustrating!

I always had the feeling it was some kind of educational method this kick out. Timo tell in some of the Interviews that the staff advised him to put more pressure on Lehmann, also in the public media and he doesn´t because it´s not his character. (btw. who said "too much of a competition for Lehmann"? O.O They want competition in the National team). I got the feeling that they miss the real will from Timo to get number one, because he doesn´t say anything. But like he said, it´s not his kind of behavior, he is the one who works on his own to eliminate his lags. But this situation says to me: "Show your will now or you doesn´t need to come back." I think Timos behavior afterwards and also Löw doesn´t give any real reason fitting to this guess, but it´s still a guess.
I want to know this mysterious reasons as soon as possible. *grrrmbl*

Yeah, Neuer will come into the team, I´m relatively sure about that (it will become a similiar situation to Lehmann-Kahn this Adler-Neuer-Thing, also a little bit similiar to Timo-Enke. They really want competition in the team, especially for the goalkeepers)
gefilterte Primärbegegnung auf der Metaebene: Smile like you mean itphoenixmaedchen on July 8th, 2008 06:35 am (UTC)
Yes, exactly this was my association, too.
No, I thought about it and I think the kicker must have mentioned it if it were true, but they didn't...

Why do you think we get a problem 2010? We DO have keepers who do greatly. There is Timo, Adler, eh-Enke-possibly, Rensing, Neuer, and maybe Tim Wiese, too, I don't know.

Yes, the whole thing is frustrating. If it would be true about letter, I have to say that this team with Löw-Köppke... is the (from "menschlicher" view) worst decision the DFB could have made. Like, ever. Sorry, but this is my opinion, and I still am a little angry about how they threw Timo out. You just can't raise somebody like a crown prince and then kick him out! Well, yes, I AM angry *lol*

*sighs* If it is not Timo's nature to be that offensive, then it isn't, they should accept it. He can show with his deeds that he wants to be the Number 1, just because he doesn't like to put pressure on Lehmann or anybody doesn't mean anything...

Yeah, mysterious reasons, can I haz reasonzzzz?
Sammy-chansammychan on July 8th, 2008 03:14 pm (UTC)
Yeah, we really have keepers who do greatly, but they all have a lack of experience. It seems for me experience in tournaments like euro and world cup is quite important. And sure it is, the pressure is something different, one mistake can be the desision of the whole tournament and the time to get along with the team is much more shorter than in a club. It´s all more a mental thing and the job of a goalkeeper isn´t just to catch the ball before it gets a goal. One thing Löw often pointed out when he talked about Lehmanns advantages are his self-confidence and his charisma (? that sounds stupid in english, Ausstrahlung im Tor, hat er gesagt). That´s also a job of a goalkeeper, to carry this self-confidence to the defense, perhaps to the whole team.
And so, which one should fulfill this role? Adler probably, he got to know the feeling of the Euro Cup, the team and he knows this kind of situation from the UEFA-Cup with Leverkusen, he can combine it a little bit, but he never played in an international match with the DFB-Team.

They should accept the different natures of the Players, but perhaps they think in another way? When you are goalkeeper you have to be offensive, it´s important in the match, it´s all this self-confidence-thing. When it´s not in your nature then you can´t be the goalkeeper of the DFB-Team?
Lehmann once said he is better, when he is under pressure, that´s a good quality for a goal keeper, because you are under pressure in the important matches. But it´s inconstant, what´s about putting them in a situation, where they are under pressure the whole time? It´s fitting to this competition-thing.
In the Sommermärchen-film there is one interview with this mental-trainer, he says that he tried to put the players under pressure in the training, so it is similiar to the real match. Basti has to serve the other later because he lost. That´s the same thing.
Perhaps they put Timo into a situation, where he has to show his offensive qualities or something like to learn from defeats or put him under pressure to show his real abilities.

All the behaviour of the staff seem to me that this Kick out has nothing to do with Timos skills as goalkeeper, it´s more one of this mental things. When it is so, his chances to get back in the team aren´t so small.

I´m angry, too, some kind of. Whatever the reasons are, the way they threw out Timo is very strange.
(Anonymous) on July 8th, 2008 04:33 am (UTC)
first of all, i´m sorry for popping in your conversation without permission, but i am really looking forward to discuss this subject with someone.
i really trust timo, i think he has great skills, but he is a little inconstant. i think he was left out of the team because of his first season in valencia, but i hope he will play better now that he has got used to the team and the idiom.
i think he is pretty much better than enke, and he is also much more experienced than adler. he should be given a second chance to prove why he holds the bundesliga record for keeping a clean sheet for 884 consecutive minutes.
someone once told me that they had left timo out of the team to give adler and enke some experience, because after the euro, he would be the only goalkeeper left of the three who had been selected since euro 04.
i´m really worried about him (what if he ends like Hans-Jörg Butt!!!). what do you think?
gefilterte Primärbegegnung auf der Metaebene: bambamphoenixmaedchen on July 8th, 2008 06:25 am (UTC)
You don't have to apologize, well, we are here to discuss, aren't we? And I posted this topic because I wanted to hear more opinions.

So, I agree with you concerning the facts that Timo has great skills but is inconstant. I think this might be one of the reasons he was left out, but, after all, Lehmann is a little inconstant, too - not as much as Timo, maybe, but he has his difficulties.

I also think that Timo should get a second chance to prove his skills and show what he can do!
I don't believe that this thing about "fighting to be the Number 1" should play a more important role in the decision. I mean, it is about skills, not about the personality who wants to fight or not, is it?

I hope that it is true with the experience for Adler and Enke, even if I don't understand the choice of Enke, then, as he is older than Timo. But if - if! - we get the trio Timo,Enke,Adler we'd have a similar situation as in Lehmann,Kahn,Timo with two older goalies and one younger who might one day be the Number 1.

I'm worried about Timo, too, and I truly hope that he won't have to sit on the bench in Valencia (because, as I read, they took their former keeper back or something, have to read it again...)

And Rensing, well *coughs* Bayern *coughs* but, mh, I think Neuer is pretty good and I don't have much of an opinion about Rensing, to be honest.
Sammy-chansammychan on July 8th, 2008 03:29 pm (UTC)
About this Valencia-Thing, they tried to get another keeper, Palop was his Name?
(Here: http://sport.t-online.de/c/15/19/86/60/15198660.html ) But the spain press wrote that the deal failed or something like that and Timo is planed to be Number 1. Only can reflect what the people in some forum said, though.
(Anonymous) on July 8th, 2008 07:09 pm (UTC)
well, supposedly they were trying to hire palop, who had been valencia´s replacement keeper, but sevilla (palop´s club) won´t let him go unless valencia gives them 6 million euros plus the player alexis ruano, which valencia won´t exchange.
now they want sergio asenjo or miguel angel moya, but they also seem difficult to hire, because they would become second keeper.
i don´t know much about them, but i think any of them would be a good second keeper.
i hope this information is useful, and i would also like to express that i´m also angry, because i think loew was really unfair by letting him play all those qualification matches and then leaving him out. i also think that there was no good-bye letter, because if it had been real, timo would have posted something in his official website.
(Anonymous) on July 8th, 2008 04:37 am (UTC)
by the way, i think rensing is pretty much better than neuer :P
Sammy-chan: snugliessammychan on July 10th, 2008 01:37 am (UTC)
gefilterte Primärbegegnung auf der Metaebene: bambamphoenixmaedchen on July 10th, 2008 06:39 am (UTC)
Yes, it does. Okay, it's still the Bild, so who knows ^^
But it would explain a lot IMHO. It could explain that there's a new strategy of Löw and Co. for the keeper-decision and that Timo got thrown out because of this and, well...
If this is true, he now has to prove that he IS a great keeper!